Interview
with Don Preston
Jazz
pioneer in the use of synthesizers,and former keyboardist with the
Mothers of Invention (1967-74) © January 2001, by Steve Moore and Don Preston
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Interview March 2000 |
Interview April 2000 |
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From his California home, the legendary Don Preston talked with me recently by phone. He was friendly and generous with his comments about his career and his many musical associations. Here is the transcript of Part One of our conversation. Thanks Don!
You just finished touring the US with the Grandmothers.this summer. Was the tour a success?
Well, I don't know if it was a success because we played a lot of small
towns, like in Iowa and Oklahoma, and people from there don't know who
the Mothers are today. So we had poor audiences in places like that. But
in New York and LA we had great audiences. Yeah, I enjoyed it. The last
time I toured (with the Grandmothers) was in '94.
We
threw an axle on the tour bus.
What
is your rig these days? What instruments and amps are you using? I
don't use an amp. I prefer to just take the output from the mixer. I wear
earphones to monitor the output. As for singing I use a monitor, but actually
on this last tour I was running the mic through the mixer as well. For
keyboards, I play a Roland JV-1080 and then I used a Roland EM-10. The
Roland EM-10 is like a real amateur keyboard - like the kind with speakers
on each side. I bought this in New York because it just had this incredible
sound. I couldn't believe it. It has a great piano (sound) and has incredible,
great percussion sounds, and pianist sounds like celeste, marimba. It
was a good second instrument to have (on the tour) to switch back and
forth. Plus it's real light, which is always a consideration.
I
know what you mean about real light. I'm hitting 48 and I'm having a hard
time handling the equipment in my band.
You're
only 48? I'm 68.
We're
getting closer to each other as we get older.
(laughs)
Oh,
I never knew it. My parents gave me piano lessons, but they said
'Dont ever become a musician.' Even though my dad was a very successful
musician in terms of nice house, nice cars, and all that stuff. But I
guess he had higher hopes for me like becoming a manager for a big department
store.
So
what did he think when you went off into Jazz and Zappa?
Well,
It was unexpected for him. I went into the army, and when I went into
the army I really didn't know very much about music at all, other than
the fact that I could play the piano. But I didn't know 'about music.'
Like in a song, I didn't know what the 'bridge' was. I hadn't got to that
part of being a musician. Up to that point I had just played classical
music. So I think it was kind of surprising to him that when I got out
of the service and came back to Detroit, and I started playing with people.
He had a recording
studio, and I remember that I brought these two black guys over with me
to make a demo. And he recorded it, and he was impressed with what we
were doing. I don't remember exactly who it was right now, but they were
the best in Detroit at that time.
Did your family ever see you perform with Zappa?
Yes,
separately. My parents divorced when I was 12. I remember that my dad
came to a concert we did in Detroit - in this cheesy club, though. I was
sort of disapointed in that but he was very impressed with the band and
with Frank. The complexity of the music.
Because
he could dig it.
Yes,
he could understand what we were doing (musically), as opposed to people
who just thought what we were doing was weird because they didn't know
what the complexity was.
And my mother came
to see the Mothers at the Pauly Pavillion when we played with the L.A.
Philharmonic. So here I am playing with the L.A. Philharmonic, and the
Mothers of Invention, of course, and afterwards I had to drive her home.
On the drive she began telling me about this bar she had visited with
'these really cute guys' that were playing this pop music and she asked
me 'why can't you do something like that?'
Oh
man! That's amazing.
(laughs)
That's mothers for you.
I
wasn't really trying to make her do anything. I was just showing people
that I could hypnotize her.
Some fans of the original
Mothers of Invention may not be aware of your extensive musical experiences
both before joining Zappa -- and after. For example, you toured with Nat
"King" Cole in 1958 playing piano. Was he still interested in his
early jazz that he apparently gave up when his career took off? Where
did you play? What memories stand out?
I
was playing piano on the tour with Nat "King" Cole. I also played bass
alot in Detroit but I was on piano with the Cole tour. He played on a
couple of selections to show he could play piano. You see, I was in a
band at that time called the Hal McIntire band, which was a collection
of musicians from New York and L.A. It was kind of like a white Count
Basie band. A lot of musicians would know who the McIntire band was.
It was kind of a nice band, and the music was fabulous. So what happened
was that Nat "King" Cole had to go on a tour and he was playing all of
the Nelson
Riddle arrangements so (Cole) had to have a band. So he took us because
we were a complete band with a good reputation because the musicians were
good.
What
was Cole like at that time? What were your impressions of him?
Prior
to his later career, wasn't he doing some really cool jazz?
Yeah,
lovely.
Was
he playing jazz when you were with him?
Yeah.
He would throw that in when he played piano. There would be one song during
the evening when he would sit down at the piano and play a jazz tune.
And he could still do it well.
What
kind of places did you play?
We
started in Vancouver and we went totally across Canada and ended up in
Montreal. We played every place including Calgary. A whole bunch of places
that I had never even heard of.
Then
you played bass with Herbie Mann and Yousef Lateef?
I
played with Herbie Mann. He was in the army band that I was in, over in
Tourest, Italy. His real name is Herbie Soloman. We were in the army together.
There were a lot of really good musicians in the army band. And we get
together in various groups to jam at night. It was a very good experience
for me.
So
you were learning scoring and orchestration then?
Yes,
especially scoring. I wrote a lot of arrangements and compositions, both
classical and jazz. We had the big, concert band, and then smaller ensembles.
So
I would assume that you had some real chops, and orchestration experience
when you joined the Mothers, that Zappa may have still been developing.
Yeah,
I had written quite a bit of music for orchestra and smaller groups before
I met Zappa.
Did
Frank ever ask you for pointers on orchestrating stuff?
No.
He wasn't really aware of what I knew when I joined the Mothers, but we
both kind of learned the same way, by experience. Neither one of us went
to school.
You
have cited Toru
Takemitsu, the Japanese composer of film
music, as a major influence on your own work. Takemitsu first experimented
with electronic techniques and "sound designs" in the fifties and sixties.
When did you first discover his work? What thoughts come to mind about
his compositions? I
only learned about him in the 70's. I am not sure how to describe the
thoughts that come to mind. I loved Stravinsky and Ravel, and Toru carried
(their music) a step further. The tonality. Takemitzu seemed to take all
of those things and put them together in his own way. And he added the
Japanese influence. Just as Bartok added the Hungarian influence, Takemitzu
added the Japanese influence. I just love the way he writes. He doesn't
really get into rhythms a lot...
I
bet that many people reading this have never heard of him before.
Really?
I'd
never knew about him until I read something about your influences. What
would be a good example of his work?
I
would say "November
Steps" or "Eclipse" is good.
Yes,
I saw them a couple of times. My first impression was 'I don't know if
I want to do this.' Because i was a jazz musician and they were playing,
to me, this corny rock and roll - especially the R&B stuff, which I thought
was redundant. It was mostly due to my lack of exposure and not particularly
disliking that sort of stuff.
Jimmy
Carl Black recently told me that "Cruisin
with Ruben and the Jets" was his personal favorite Mothers record.
I am guessing that it would be your least favorite. Am I right? No,
no, it's not my least favorite. After being in the Mothers for a year
or two, I grew to like that kind of music. I grew to see what Zappa liked
about it. It had certain weird qualities. There's a lot of humor in it.
I think that's what I liked about it. But I wouldn't say that "Ruben and
the Jets" is my favorite album.
So
what would be be your favorite
I
knew you were gonna say that. (laughs)
Would
it be "We're
only in it for the money?"
Probably,
"Money."
Because
it's the best. (laughs) It is just executed better than any of
my other solos.
When
you are doing a solo like on "Waka
Jawaka," how much of that is just you improvising and how much was
written or directed by Frank?
I
would say 100% (is me improvising) because when you are playing solos
you are going on the chords that have been written but still improvising
every note.
I
don't want this to be a slam on Frank, but if you take stuff that Miles
Davis did with others, like a song where John McLaughlin justs riffs,
Davis would copyright it "Davis/McLaughlin." But Zappa never did that
with you or any of the other musicians he played with.
No.
Around in the late 80s or 90s somewhere, Zappa made some revisions on
some of those things. But the "Lonesome Electric Turkey" solo I did on
"Filmore East" -- the only thing on the track is my solo - is copyrighted
Frank Zappa.
Much has been said
and written about the 1967 Mothers shows at NYC's Garrick Theatre. It
seemed like everything came together for the band during those shows.
Cal Schenkel hooked
up with the Mothers. FZ came up with the idea to parody "Sgt. Peppers."
The group found a new following. What did you think of what was happening
at that time. What was it like for you? Did you sense that "The Mothers"
were just going to 'take off?' Oh,
God no! We never thought about that aspect. At least I didn't. I thought
'oh! this is so interesting.' 'Hey, we're doing this.' 'Hey, we're doing
that.' I actually just kind of watched it. I didn't really think about
what was going to happen.I
was thrilled to be where I was. I just felt extremely grateful to
be in that position
In
"The Real Frank Zappa" bio, Zappa writes that he decided to disband the
Mothers when he saw Duke Ellington "begging for a ten-dollar advance."
I have a hard time believing that story. Did you see that happen? I
think I read that, too, but that's not what happened. A lot of stuff in
that book is bull shit. It was just his imagination. There were a number
of reasons why the Mothers disbanded. One of them was that Zappa was paying
us all a salary. Now this kinda sounds stupid to me. He couldn't afford
the (Mother's) salary, but he kept hiring more and more musicians. So
anyhow, when he had to pay nine people in the band, it's gonna cost a
lot of money. So, don't hire that many. He didn't have to hire nine people.
That's what he was doing at that time. So his reasoning was that he couldn't
afford to pay all the musicians with all his money. Sure, so don't hire
that many.
The other thing was
that he used to get very angry when people would respond to the solos
more than his compositions. So that was one of the things that was making
him angry at the time. The other thing was that we sometimes during a
concert would only play 3 or 4 songs. The rest would all be improvisation.
That's the way the band was working. And working real well that way. We
could handle that reponsibility and people loved it. It wasn't just jazz
but like all kinds of weird time changes, experimental types of music.
So I think he wanted more kinds of control on the music. Lastly, a lot
of people were geting laid and he wasn't. That was probably a cause of
friction
Everyone
in the band appears to have taken the break-up pretty hard, but you went
ahead and continued a musical relationship with Frank through '75. So
you were really the only one of the "Mothers" who continued with him.
Actually,
Ian Underwood also kept close. In fact, Ian was still close and stayed
in touch with Zappa even after the class-action law suit on behalf
of the ex-Mothers.
You've
played and recorded with so many famous musicians. Could I just mention
some and can you give me your thoughts about them?
Sure.
Robbie
Krieger (of the Doors)
Robbie
is a sweet guy. He put a band together in the L.A. area and we recorded
(Robbie Krieger
). I always liked Robbie a lot. He was very kind, generous.
Jimi
Hendrix.
Jimi
was friends with the band. He was always interested in what we were doing.
His picture is on the cover of "Money."
Right.
He came to the shoot.
Uh
huh. He liked the band. And we used to hang out with the other guys, Noel
and Mitch.
John
and Yoko. You were there at the Filmore when John and Yoko played with
the band. What was that like? That
was very interesting. Although I really didn't get a chance to meet them
well, we did play together. At one point in the concert, one of the things
that was very striking was that John started immitating Zappa by conducting
the band with hand signals. I thought that was hilarious. And he was doing
a really good job of it. And Yoko, in her innimitable self...pauses,
laughsI always liked Yoko a lot. She was stretching boundaries. I
played an electronic solo. It was really a great evening.
When
John died, I wrote Yoko the most thoughfull condolence letter that I could
come up with. She responded, but she also sent my family Christmas cards
for a couple of years after. I have them framed.
Really?
Wow.
How
about Michael Mantler. What drew you to his music? I
don't think anything drew me to his music. First of all, you have to realize
that I met Carla
Bley in L.A. when she was married to Paul Bley, and the three of us
used to jam together. I also played bass with Carla and Paul for a year
or so. In the late sixties Carla married Michael Mantler. They asked me
if I would perform on her first album, "Escalator
Over The Hill", which was a huge project. A three-record set of an
opera, with words by by Paul Haines. It had a 20-page book the size of
the album with pictures. Linda Ronstadt and Jack Bruce were on the album.
So, it was an incredible project. They asked if I would be on it -
just singing - which (laughs) I found very strange. I said,
'sure, I'll do it, Why not?'
Was
that the beginning of Mantler's
The School of Understanding?
No,
this first project, 'Escalator' was Carla's. They were living together
but separate projects, except that my character, the Doctor, was the same
on both. I played the same character. 38 years passed between Carla's
"Escalator" and Mantler's "School."
What
was your involvement with the score of "Apocolypse, Now?"
Basically,
I orchestrated about a fourth of the movie and played all the parts. Francis
Ford Coppola's father, Carmine, wrote the score. At that tim, a little
disde note, Thescore had already been written by Peter Shire, and it was
recorded by some synthesizer players. But Peter Shire started to have
some altercationa with his wife, Tallia Shire - who was Francis Ford Coppola's
sister, and they got divorced. So Francis just cancelled the csore. I
don't know what that must have cost. So Francis said we'll do the score
in San Francisco, and he got a few people like Pat Gleason and Bernie
Krause, and I had just bought my own synthesizer from Pat Gleason, so
they called me up because they wanted to rent my synthesizer. They knew
I had one. So when I was talking to the producer, he said 'By the way,
what's your name?' and I told him. He replied "Don Preston? Why don't
you do the score? What do we need these other guys for? (He was
thinking) This way we can get the synth for free. (laughs). So
I went there and did my portion.
When
you were recording the score, how much did you know -- or could you see--
of the actual film?
Oh,
we had it right there. We were playing as the movie was running. Absolutely.
Not every time, but the only way you can know if the cues are working
is to check the film
From
your career, which is obviously amazing, you are really a pioneer in the
synthesizer. Is that fair to say?
Well,
since I was the first person to ever use one in a band, yeah, you could
say that.
The
picture of the one you were playing with the Mothers says it was flat-out
home made.
It
was home made, but it was assembled from parts. It was a modular Moog
synthesizer, but square, not like the later rectangular ones. It had a
casing made of plexiglass. It was assembeld differently.
How
did you first discover the synthesizer? Paint that picture for us.
The
first one, I made.
You
made it? What year was this?
1965.
You couldn't buy one then. The Moog synth came out in 1967. The thing
I made was a collection of oscilators, filters, and other bells and whistles.
And it synthesized sounds. I thought you were referring to the pic on
my home page of the Moog. If you are talking about the photo of my 1st
'homemade synth,' then that was my own design and was built before
any other commercial synthesizer. It had about 50 oscillators, 3 filters,
2 Ring Modulators, a tape delay, a theremin and a mixer. Along with that
I used several metal sculptures and a truck spring to create 'electronic'
sounds.
"Vile
Foamy" is no longer in print but I have it on sale on my web site.
That's
because I just finished building the store two days ago. Now, it's working.
Are
you doing the web site work yourself?
Yes
What
kind of computer do you use?
I
use a Mac.
There's
a web site called Maccentral
that often lists musicians and other famous people who use Macs. I should
send this over to them.
I
don't know if it makes a difference, but I prefer to do the web without
using any of the programs. The programs seem so sterile.
What was the worst thing that happened?
Since
you grew up with a father who was the composer-in-residence for the Detroit
Symphony, did you always know you would be a professional musician?
On
your cool web site,
you say that you were kicked out of school for hypnotizing a nun.
What were you trying to make her do?
To
tell you the truth, I thought of him as royalty. He had this 'air' about
him that was so regal. It was amazing. He didn't really associate with
the band though, at all.
You
first joined the Mothers of Invention to record "Absolutely
Free." Had you seen the Mothers perform before you joined the band?
What was your first impressions of both the group, and of Frank?
That's
my favorite, but another favorite, and I don't want to sound like I'm
kising up here, is "Waka Jawaka." I read that you have said that your
favorite recorded solo is on that song, as well. Why is that one your
best?
Absolutely
fascinating. Thanks so much for talking with me. Could you tell us about
your records, like things that are available. "Vile Foamy Ectoplasm,"
or others?
Coming
in the Spring: Part Two of the Don Preston Interview.
Discography (in progress)...
Hear Me Out
(Echograph)
Don Preston
on ECM Records
Vile Foamy Ectoplasm
The
School of Understanding
Ivo Perelman - IVO
(K2B2 2769) with vocalist Flora Purim.
Robbie Krieger
Robbie Krieger
Additional Don Preston
links: (in prgress)
Keys to the
Kingdom, LA Times Article
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